Conversation on reciprocity

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Started from Conversation on shrinkage and growth

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[edit] Ocean's generation question

What are the conditions needed for the world's ocean to regenerate itself, species large and small? Particularly in the context of global warming, the acidification of the world in general, and diverse pollution inputs.

[edit] Measures?

Q1: Can we get 195-200 countries to agree on anything as drastic as taking the measures that will regenerate the ocean ecosystem?

Q2: What would those measures be?

How much would they cost? How much would it cost to do them? How much would it cost not to do them?

[edit] Which causes?

Q3: What are they?

You cant regenerate dying species without root causes (As Pogo said: they are us)

  1. Taking without giving
  2. Taking without limitations
  3. Polluting without limitations
  4. CO2 (acidification) in the air without limitations
  5. Nitrogen dumping without limitations (i.e., agricultural fertilizers without limitations.

[edit] Limits

Questions raised: How do you sent limits? How do you fund regenerative processes? I.e., when the ocean is a global system.

[edit] Beliefs

Costly beliefs:

  1. The ocean is inexhaustible - not true.
  2. So what if we lose the ocean, we'll produce in other ways - Ha!

[edit] Solutions?

Last Chapter: Solutions?

  1. You need an empowered global mechanism to set the rules, fully able to punish transgressors.
  2. Need to put it all together into a concrete proposal

[edit] Alternatives?

And whats the alternative?

  1. Continue degeneration of the world ocean in terms of
present productivity
future regeneration

[edit] Consequences

Outcomes:

  1. Disease
  2. Dead zones will continue growing

Vast consequence

  1. The ocean wont produce food anymore except under special farming conditions
  2. Estuarine life and associated lagoon life will fade back as oceanid nurseries and as food producing sites, and ocean-dependent wetlands lose the power to purify water
  3. The ocean collects CO2 by the phytoplanckton that grow shells with the CO2 and then drop to the floor of the ocean when they did.
The oceans ability to counteract acidification drops proportionally to acidification
Thus pushing CO2 closer to becoming a runaway feedback loop
Adding materially to all life systems as temperatures rise more rapidly than life systems can accommodate

DNA 15:13, 13 July 2008 (PDT)DNA

[edit] What moves are available?

NH: From a self-organizing perspective, because every government understands this.

DW: Feedback links that promote diverse on-the-ground, thinking globally, acting globally, organizing locally, interconnecting the localities of action. It must be a social and networked movement.

NH: I (absolutely) agree. I would have said that less well.

DW:

NH: Like to work with Warren Sack. He is studying how multi-million conversations work. We need a deeper insight on how to generation a multi-million person multi-language multi-cultural response to the deep endangerment of one of the core life-sources of the planet.

DW: No life-supporting ocean, no life.

NH: A dead ocean bodes well for no one. May still be some life. Pose three questions

  1. Assuming a multi-million person discourse with questions and suggestions operating at may levels:
How would you organize this information
How would you generate a leadership group

DW: I'd start off with a plenitude of places for multi-person conversation, like this wiki, wikipedia, wikis or other media dealing with ecosystem vulnerabilities and solutions to sustainability, alternative technologies and sharing of these technologies, the important things being that

  1. like wikipedia, that self-named others are free to add and correct information to get community intelligence
  2. these sites be interconnected in a positive way, public, and that community editing and reputation provide mechanisms for fully emergent leadership
  3. major focus should be on on-the-ground active construction of solutions in-place, with diffusion enable and sources of self-funding.

NH: Solutions in place need money, just talking it over doesn't do. I am imagining at a certain point

  1. that we generate a multi-million person conversation
  2. that we develop world oceans NGOs network, and that each person involved contribute to those NGOs where they participate but also communicate and share with others, according to reputation, which is emergent.
  3. but that most people who suggest projects on the ground don't have the money to do them.

How to solve these problems?

Conversation on cohesive force

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